tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-773814479902729178.post515021213019289518..comments2023-06-30T07:27:29.362-07:00Comments on can't we just get along ?: Blasphemy, part IIUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-773814479902729178.post-36172978434328922792011-04-25T19:07:15.366-07:002011-04-25T19:07:15.366-07:00Peter, you are too kind. I want everybody to win a...Peter, you are too kind. I want everybody to win and I really want everybody to get along. I would pretty much have to stop the blog if this came to be but it would be worth it. Maybe I'll address the particulars when I can come up with an inspired way to write it.swiggco worldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06676250248559678763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-773814479902729178.post-47871845044752587382011-04-24T16:56:09.758-07:002011-04-24T16:56:09.758-07:00I'm with Richard on this.
"what's th...I'm with Richard on this.<br /><br />"what's the difference what they make(regardless of whether it sustains them or not) since that's not your calling or business model anyway? your markets don't even overlap."<br /><br />Whether there is or is not a verbal assault by the lugged artisan builders upon you is irrelevant. I don't think their voices would be strong enough to hurt your business.<br /><br />"few have the legacy and palmares (are they the same thing?) that rock lobster has..."<br /><br />I feel the "lugged renaissance" was started by aging baby boomers pining for the frames of their racing days of yore. Much like the resurgence of vinyl records, this too, shall pass. Then along will come a renaissance of TIG steel frames with demand driven by those who came of age during that era. Then just watch what happens in the industry.<br /><br />Richards comments above tell me he's more than just a good framebuilder; he's a good businessman as well and exploited opportunities when he's seen openings in the market. There are very successful TIG builders out there and I believe there is market growth available as well, to the person willing to expand their horizons without necessarily expanding their business i.e., hiring more employees.<br /><br />You do yourself a disservice by abandoning participation on the forums, for it's that constant exposure that'll sway and keep opinions of TIG'd frames as a worthy, viable option over the artisan lugged offerings. Forum participation is a marketing tool, and an important one in today's internet world.<br /><br />I can also see value in being a member of the Framebuilders' Collective even though they don't offer much other than your name associating with that of other highly esteemed builders. But that in itself has high value because you'll be judged by the company you keep. I know you've poo-poo'd that idea in the past. Perhaps it's time to reconsider.<br /><br />So maybe the scuttlebutt at the shows diss'd TIG frames. If you lie there and take it then the artisans builders and their hangers-on will win. You need to actively promote and defend your work. You need to use your "legacy and palmares" as Richard calls it, to your advantage.<br /><br />And I'll repeat what I've said to you before; I don't think you charge enough for your frames ;-)Peter W. Polackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01970552290444681455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-773814479902729178.post-50507366306082644132011-04-23T12:04:47.937-07:002011-04-23T12:04:47.937-07:00atmo i don't need to read names or have brands...atmo i don't need to read names or have brands outed; mine are simply questions that would answer your reply to me. few have the legacy and palmares (are they the same thing?) that rock lobster has, yet you sound like someone/something is hitting hard. i don't knew who's "talking down" or how big their voices are - all i wanna know is what is said. heck - paraphrase it; give us the cliff's notes. but at least serve up an anecdote or three. give us a, "well, he said his water-jet dropouts with the stainless steel rococo logos etched in them are better than my welded braze-ons", or some shit like that. i'm here reading and feel you to an extent. i just don't get the attention given to said artisan builders as if they are gate keepers to anything you would covet.e-RICHIEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13004654079480170475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-773814479902729178.post-32497557356405310022011-04-23T11:48:28.566-07:002011-04-23T11:48:28.566-07:00I guess this is on the heels of all the shows I ha...I guess this is on the heels of all the shows I have attended, all the forums I am no longer participating in and all the emails and comments I have read from a whole mess of folks that need not have their names put in print by me. You, like I straddle the worlds of bikes that are ridden hard but have some style. Your bikes have more of a nod to tradition than mine but they get beat up just as much and ridden at the highest level. The folks that talk down the working stiff are few but they are a pretty big voice in the boutique bike world, at least that is the way it seems to me. Maybe I'm over-reacting.......hey, I have a bunch of great customers and a lively hood doing what I have loved since I was a kid. My complaints and opinions have no more validity that anyone else's , but then there's the life experience.....it has to count for something. PS, good Chavez, or whatever they say. I missed out on the latkes this time....dang, err....oy!swiggco worldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06676250248559678763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-773814479902729178.post-9745638649584444782011-04-23T11:06:10.472-07:002011-04-23T11:06:10.472-07:00>>> "The artisan folks, at least a f...>>> "The artisan folks, at least a few of them - certainly not all-have a dismissive attitude toward the working stiff builder."<br /><br />i'm still asking atmo - how DOES this manifest itself? has someone said something/done something/intimated something? it's one thing to give energy to what they (whoever "THEY" are...) by calling this out here, but i wanna know what you actually experienced that became the catalyst for this entry. and PS what's the difference what they make(regardless of whether it sustains them or not) since that's not your calling or business model anyway? your markets don't even overlap. heck - they might not even be aware the other one exists. what's the rub?<br /><br />>>> "This brings me to the current state of affairs. Now that our 'Golden age' of bike shows, artisan frame builders and online ogle-ment is in full flight , how are we to avoid what happened to the cult builders of the '80's and '90's ?"<br /><br />how? atmo -<br />http://tinyurl.com/3uyrjk6<br /><br />i think we all do get along - at least to the extent that framebuilders, by their very nature, are independent types and ended up at the bench because they grew tired of convention and/or wanted to embrace an outlier lifestyle. the very notion that we're at odds with each other, or on one side of a fence or the other, makes good copy, but it would resonate more if folks knew what set this off. eh i dunno - this all seems so on the heels of the show you attended, and i am curious. fill in some blanks, huh.<br /><br />ps happy pesach atmo...e-RICHIEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13004654079480170475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-773814479902729178.post-8141579900297967102011-04-23T11:04:17.876-07:002011-04-23T11:04:17.876-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.e-RICHIEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13004654079480170475noreply@blogger.com